If we could only trust them and then have the courage to live by them. Hi, I am rather new to your site but I can not tell you how on target you are with each and ever post. AC that he was I went back to him for a couple of years in there. Thought that I could manage a casual relationship unfortunately somewhere along the line it became all on his terms. In the beginning he would call, text and drop in non stop then somewhere hmmm was it directly after we started having sex?
He stopped texting and calling a week or two will go by then a call but now text … are you around? This has been going on for nearly 2 months now every couple of weeks out of the blue. Just what are these ACs thinking? Londee, boy do they make multiple copies of the same guys for us unfortunately. Natalie and ladies, It just never ceases to amaze me how similar our stories are with these asshats. I was so big on what I thought was spontaneity that I wanted to one up him. You betcha. What a moron I was. I cringed when I read about planning for the non-plan.
We no longer sit by phones literally since we have mobiles…but pretty much I, you and so many others are waiting phone in hand, pocket, purse hoping to be summoned so we can leap to duty smh.
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How horrible! Have you met my ex?! Drinking with the boys. Friday and Saturday nights were never planned with me and I was never a priority. Tyla, i think we dated the same guy, you describe my situation perfectly.. I had to go and drink with him. I really liked this post and the way you explained what being spontaneous really means, not the assclowns version. I can enjoy quality time with me, god knows how many times I let the man choose the temp, and have me on puppet strings making last minute plans, the plans were crap.
Now I know why I felt so unsettled but at that point, I was still learning. Then either I never hear from him again this is what went down the last time I talked to him-a month ago-or we make plans for something like one or two weeks before said plans , get together, he strings me along via text every week or so….
Anyway, I loved clicking through the posts on Passive Agressive behavior…that pretty much draws the lines in the relationship sands, right? But I was wondering, when are you coming out with that book??!! On the other hand, these guys and ladies get off on ambiguity. The trick is to make very little or no room for this bullshit. They have to keep you on simmer on the stove, to keep you a little warm with hope, just in case they do ever feel like seeing you again. Where are we going- ok, duh again?
What decent women wants that mess? My guy and I have been dating for 2 months and we are exclusive, not had sex yet. OK, he has planned to see a few movies, but that seems to be the extent of it. If we do something, like go out for dinner or do something, it happens after we see each other and decide to do that, but no plans have nbeen made. Even with New Years, he left it to the last minute and lots of things were booked. It seems like nothing is planned other than is he coming to my place or am I going to his.
I think the guy should be planning fun dates for us, and I guess still trying to impress me. Yes, he is wonderful, but am I expecting too much, or is he lazy? After I got involved with my Assclown, everything from that point on fell off a cliff. But this one is dragging his feet with you, his supposed girlfriend, when it comes to getting laid?
Spinster, very true! Whatever happened to sharing new experiences together? You are right to smell a rat, Groundhog Day. If he is avoiding sex now it is likely to only get worse. I hear ya. To use sex either way is really cruel I think. Both equally degrading. I asked him if there was someone else. I have but even him taking up space in my mind is gross!!!
Sorry, bit off topic. I appreciate all your feedback. We are into each other too, physically, but of course have a long ways to go still. And I say, yes and he tells me what we are doing. He seems to leave it till we get together, or I need to suggest something. We are getting together tomorrow and I asked what are we doing? I noticed this with a guy I was with.
Then after we spent some time apart things changed. He was working but I just noticed a distinct change and lack of enthusiasm. My ex called every day and I saw him at least a few times a week, but there was never any planning, just him announcing when he was about to come by. Not that I needed to know each day of the week that we would spend time together in advance we always just hung out at home anyways but the lack of consideration was a red flag. Thanks for your share.
Also when you talked everyday, did you not decide when you would get together that week? Thank you, Chloe. Good grief. Nonetheless, it does beg a question. Why are there so MANY men out there like this? They come in all shapes and sizes. Thanks again, Chloe. Why are there so many EU people? No idea, but maybe they just want a bit of fun and nothing more that that?
A clash of values and desires perhaps? There are enough people to tolerate their behaviour and even treat them like the sun shines out of their…. And yes, people are so different and they want such different things from life. Our job is to accept that there is a difference in values sometimes and just keep going right past what is not for us. Run it up the old flagpole to see if anyone will salute! This man has an eleven-year-old daughter who stays with him every other weekend.
Well, as it turns out, this coming weekend January 21 and 22 is HIS weekend with her. While he sleeps overnight somewhere else. As a retired educator and a survivor of wretched child abuse, my first thoughts are always for the children that get caught in the midst of this self-absorption, fundamental immaturity and drama. But I discovered that something had shifted in my soul this time. For my first reaction was to immediately define a boundary for MY protection.
And then I stopped analyzing. I cannot. I am no longer available. Catherine, good job. The colossal nerve. Just shocking. Left me speechless. What a self-centered cad. My family is scattered all over the US. This, for me, has made me almost desperate for the love of a man, and the last one I was involved with for 14 months abused me and I hung in there hoping we would get married.
I did not walk away — he was all that I had. As for the men, they are on their own also. I think our men are wounded by this lack of family-love, and they are not held responsible for bad behavior — by anyone. Because they do not express emotions well, they choose to please themselves physically, shag around without committment and then settle when and only when they can benefit the most from it. This is all very sad, and I think global societies will have a difficult time putting the model of the family back into existance, including economical reasons. So, this is my take on why there are so many EUMs and so many women experiencing EUMs and trying to salvage or create relationships with them.
I came accross this paragraph this morning and want to share it with you all:. Tania, What a brilliant quote! They use these exact words. He left me shaking my head in dismay. I try to be genuine with men. They just like the sound of their own voices and will say any random thing to get your attention. Some guys are really THAT immature. I usually have 2 or 3 days each week available for social or me-time activities and then every other weekend. I am not leaving those days to last minute chance. My girlfriends know I am scheduling out my happy hours and my boyfriend knows he needs to grab those days he can in advance.
He even goes over my custody schedule with me each week for the following week. Ummm, cause I have a busy life??!! I called my current boyfriend this morning and asked if he could commit to a trip this summer because ticket prices are great right now. You sound like me. I just need to find a man like that one you found. But only when I am ready. Cuz they might…for only as long as necessary to reel you back in and give you amnesia as to what you were about to do…. Thankyou Natalie, exactly what I needed to read in the aftermath of my recent realisation on this exact issue.
Sure he made some effort, but there was a very strong element of all of this in my relationship. Baggage reclaim is such a life saver sometimes. Thanks for this post Natalie. The way you break it down always helps. He said that he eventually cracks and calls me. Feels like a catch 22 at play here. The last minute call really bugs me and it does feel like being put on standby, but am I putting myself in the passenger seat and expecting him to do all the work?
Worse, maybe I need that pursuit to make me feel validated. I might be a little old fashioned but I also might be a bit stubborn. This is opening up a lot for me to think about…. I have to be careful but remain open. Trying to find my balance there. Yes Grace, there is probably an element of that in me too. I go off and do them alone still. Grace, you are spot on about how it was for me.
Like he drew an invisible line I could not overstep. I tried but quickly learnt not to want too much, and sometimes knew better than to even call or send a text! There is one name for it, crazymaking. I feel silly at this point writing about my last EUM experience. This post struck a nerve for another area in my life causing pain and heartache— friendships. It seems in mid-life, no one has the time for anything, certainly not to invest too much in friendship. Everyone is only available on their terms, they rarely if ever will even just meet me for a coffee or a walk when I propose a get-together.
Great, 2 more to cross off the list. I just want my own family to build a life around. Anoosh I understand where you are coming from as I sometimes experience the same thing with my girlfriends. They do usually get in touch but usually with gaps of months sometimes. Others are very good and keep in touch every few weeks, it depends on the person. I have and am learning to get out more …. I have had words with a couple of friends about this as it made me feel they were not valuing the friendship. Just keeping talking and smiling with new people everyday.
We just need to acknowledge their limits and then find other ways to get our needs met — by going out and looking for other people who want the same! Children have very few options. They are very dependent on people next to them mainly their parents to get their needs met. Anoosh, I am in a similar place. So I too continue to try to meet new friends and hopefully will click with someone whose free time more closely mirrors my own. When I need to overburden and overexpress I write long messages to her and get it off my chest.
She knows I do this and is perfectly happy to be my sounding board and she often answers with some great insight, but then at least I feel like I can see some of my local friends without spending the whole time talking about me and my problems because that does get old for them I think. I am thinking about joining a local book club if I can get over my shyness enough to jump in.
He always rang well in advance with plans to do something and meet and if it suited me. He never texted invites never stood me up and yet he was still emotionally unavailable. Everything still managed to be on his terms and of course if I was passing by I could never drop by or arrange anything last minute because he wanted my invitations well in advance too. I thought I would post this because people may read it and think oh my guy calls he makes plans in advance etc but obviously all the other stuff that makes a relationship needs to be there as well. Good point, Tulipa.
I sometimes remind myself of that with certain posts as well, such as when people talk about being managed by text. My ex called me every day, sometimes many times throughout the day. I saw him at least a few times a week as well. I felt like he wanted to talk to me and see me regularly, yes, but it was still always on his terms, and there were other issues at play that were red flags.
He still called me daily, but when that one week came when we were both around, he made no suggestion of seeing one another. It really bothered me. I had a friend telling me how he obviously really liked me and who acted like I was crazy for having reservations. But I think the bottom line here is that when a man really wants to be with you, you should know it, full out. Instead he would sit there talking on the phone for ages instead of just getting off his ass and coming to see me.
How crap is that. Next time, I ask questions! We are too eager to suppress ourselves, our needs, our desires, our voice, our everything. Great post. I am ashamed to say, I was the queen of sitting and waiting for his text or email I should have been so lucky as to get an actual phone call , telling me what or if we would be doing anything. On the few occasions when I suggested something, he literally acted as though I had not spoken. I spent so much time and energy clearing my schedule, making sure I was available if he wanted to do anything — no wonder this raging narcissist thought he was the center of the universe.
I made him the center of mine. When he showed up at all, it was somewhere between 1 and 2 hours late, with no explanation or apology. When he decided he wanted to do something, I was to drop everything and run and I am embarrassed to say I always did. I thought, at the time, I was being low maintenance and non-demanding, the perfect thing to be for an admitted commitment phobic man. What I was was a doormat, willing to accept any crap scrap and acting like I had been blessed from on high.
His spontaneous was texting me at 5pm on a Friday evening after work asking if he could come round that night…but yet he would always ask me to let him know in advance if I wanted to do anything with him. It got tiresome in the end I just left it to him to make plans with me, can you imagine, this then put me in a position of waiting around for him to make contact. Me jumping every time I got a text yes most of our communication over 6 years on and off was via text. I have been no contact since January , he tried to make contact with me in October he called me one night at This website has been a complete God send and has explained his behaviour to a T ; Honestly, I was shocked that this subject needed to be addressed, because it seems so obvious to me.
This sort of behavior is defined as being used, treated inconsiderately, taken for granted, and not respected. For example, for me, some of the fun of seeing someone that I have deep feelings for is the anticipation of seeing her. By having plans, I drive my anticipation. So……I try to book her dance card in advance. Trust me, when I find myself not wanting to be considerate, or not looking forward to spending face time, then this is a red flag to me, and I will quickly move on.
I want to be with someone that has enough respect for themselves to not allow this type of behavior from me. There may be reasons for the spontaneity. Maybe you are always talking about how busy you are and your man is confused about how to approach you. Maybe he is just a rude person. Whatever the reason, if you are truly attracted to this person, open communication is the best way to go. Dating is often awkward, especially in mid-life. Although I agree with the vast majority of what Natalie writes, I have this posted on the wall of my office, and this is what I have come to believe: There is no such thing as a perfect relationship.
It is how two people deal with their imperfections that make it perfect. Sometimes you just have to let go, and go after whatever it is you want more than anything. Never stop believing. Never give up on something you want. Miracles happen every day. This is what I live by. I wish I had the above fact at start of my last relationship. Even though he controlled the relationship — I should have stood my boundaries and not given him the control. I will keep all this in mind from here out, and to hopefully find a good healthy relationship! Women for the most part are more limited in the pool we have to choose from after a certain age.
I know it is for me. For years I felt like I was walking about with a part of my insides shot out. Deal with your own issues first and the rest will surely follow as day follows night. The opposite is more like it. It was almost some sick game to win them over. Unfortunately, I paid in spades with my self-esteem, confidence and pride. No man is worth that. Totally relate to what you say even if with mr make a date in advance from above I was chasing him trying to prove my worth etc as though he were extra special.
I too paid in spades in all the relationships where I chased the guy who was resisting me I know what it means now when he resists Stay far far away and accept it for what it is. I cannot begin to express how glad I was to come upon Baggage Reclaim. I bought her book and did some mad highlighting! Hi Nat! This is a great post. I have a friend who is pretty inconsiderate of my time. She never picks up. I have to respectfully disagree with a chunk of this post. Many times, I actually do find out about an event shortly before contacting them.
Furthermore, they are the first and sometimes only people I contact. I often do make concrete plans with people, but I also appreciate the freedom to be able to make quick plans with people that I have known for a period of time. It is quite clear. No one is saying that you cannot be spontaneous eg hearing about a good concert last minute and then asking friends if they want to go.
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This happens all the time to lots of people and the majority of people are fine with this happening, occasionally. I was married and I would say my ex-husband was spontaneous in a very balanced way. Once he surprised me with a weekend away but he had planned it secretly.. He would ring me at work to go for a lovely meal and a nice restaurant.
No one likes to feel like a last minute option. If you make a habit of it you might find friends starting saying no to invites and might start criticising said behaviour as I had to do with one ex-friend, who was continually doing this type of thing that people starting complaining!. Hello, friends and neighbors. Have they been coddled by their mamas, told that they are rare prizes, and a woman would be lucky to just be in their presence? I do not know. But it does my heart good to see more and more and more and more! As more and more of us wise up, Eum and Ac men will have fewer and fewer options, and will have to eventually shape up!
And realize that they are indeed not that special. Thanks to NML for getting this ball rolling and for all of you for taking your power and self respect back! You all inspire me more with each article and comment I read. Rock on! You may or may not believe this biblical story to be literal truth but it sure was written a long time ago, way before the article you mention.
Its all rubbish. Usually based on one persons perception or a few apocryphal stories, dished up as hard facts, but no real evidence at all. Whew, this was my life exactly months ago. Of course, like an idiot, I waited a few times. Although one time I picked myself up and decided to go out with my friends after a no show act from him. Of course, I would contact him during this time, unfortunately. I remember like Nat said above, waiting to see if I would be in his plans for that week. Relationships in the beginning should be fun and easier than what follows. I believe they should progress naturally and without so much worry and anxiety like the above warrants.
Both individuals should want to see one another and spend time together and doing so should be equally maintained by both halves. These posts make me very reflective about everything. What a ridiculous human being. How someone can treat another person as such is beyond me. God, this is so refreshing to read. Of course I am good enough! Your book sounds good. Amazing how much you can learn when you finally decide to live with your eyes wide open.
Every time I read a book or listen to a song now, my EU antenna goes wild. Tania, Yes I see it everywhere, the repeating patterns! No thank you, what am I your fallback option? I can live with it, but its left me feeling stupid for responding. Should I just ignore it or should I text his favoured method of communication to say clearly it was meant for someone else on his list and to forget it?
Stand your ground, hold your head high. If you needed a reminder as to why you went no contact with this particular AC, I think you just got it! Total loser. Total waste of time. You deserve way better. Shattered, block and delete. Keep your power ignore him from this point on no matter what he says. Loved this post! There are other posts on this site about why you should never put someone on a pedestal.
The divorce rate in the UK is actually falling. Should add though that not all men are like this. Just the losers we need to give a VERY wide berth. Thank God for real men! They are the only ones able to put the ACs out of business because, once you have a real man, you will never go back to accepting the destructive behaviour of an AC. Beth, So I think it all comes down to compatibility and compatibility is a very subtle thing. It has to do with physiology, genetics, temperament, character, etc… It is a very subjective thing.
Once a person finds that special someone that resonates with them, they will treat it like a treasure, ofcourse if they realize what they have. Some people are not sensitive, or attuned enough to recognize such a person, or are unlucky to ever meet one. The fact is an EUM is not going to treat any woman well, particuarly if the women they target are usually EU as well with low self esteem. They are all about being fake with no depth so how can they possibly treat anyone well.
I live in Chico CA. I respect your perspective in this area. I am a pastor and I have a full time job. I receive a modest salary that would not come close to paying my living expenses. The church must understand that they cant demand full time service from a man that has a full time job. Taking care of family and expenses is a priority in the pastors house as well as your house.
Those hours he spends at a secular job takes away time, energy, study, prayer, counseling, sermon prep, visitation etc etc etc… If a church is able to pay a pastor enough to live comfortably then great. If he has to work to make up the difference then the demand for his time should be reduced. They want their pastor.
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Paul was asked by God to preach the gospel since God asked him he thought it would be an honor out of respect for God to preach for free since he was called my God. Paul took nothing you thought it would dishonor God if he took instead of giving. If you continue to study the works and doings of Paul you will find out that he asked and received support from the churches that he established..
Some were more generous than others. He praised the ones that gave and also rebuked those that was able to and did not support him. Please read your bible and not a fortune cookie. People traveled from other countries to give Paul money to carry out his ministry.
Did not the disciples get monies to buy bread? The church is not a business although most try to run like one without the know how. If you want pay like a CEO…get a job. The fact this comment was even made reveals much about the bad behavior being driven by paying pastors. I agree with others that have posted on here the expectation of a salary is unbiblical. Paul and the other apostles were taken care of by offerings given voluntarily by church members from different locations because the apostles were traveling to evangelize people in other areas and strengthening churches.
Myself, I do ministry work in my local community on my own time that involves teaching and taking care of the homeless. For my career, I manage a global team of 13, travel internationally, set strategy, and am held accountable for my job by multiple people. I do all of this and twice the ministry work of most churches in my area by the grace of God.
Maybe more people should consider following Jesus instead of the traditions of men…you might not be so stressed out and actually be happy following the Spirit instead of some organization. They have left up the high places of their fathers before them. They are literalists, letter of the law keepers when it suits the best and live life as pharisees.
Christ said we would suffer Paul said to labor and as far as tribute is concerned we are held victims to our translators or those who want to interpret the scripture as it makes them comfortable. The church was never supposed to have one man doing any and all. Ah… There you have it! We are to esteem these elders two fold that we do, those who do not teach. So if the scripture reference in 1 Timothy is about finances then the whole church is bankrupt. But if it is about esteem or just honor, then this is an easy burden for us all to carry out.
Shame on us who think it is about paying someone for a service that should be done freely as referenced in Matt. Father help these professing Christians! Comment for Dee a Pastors wife. Your reply to Destiny was rude,there was no need to react like that you should have known better and corrected her in a fair way. Our Pastors wages come from our tithes and thats how it is. I just think there was no need for you to be so rude. My husband has a full time secular job and is a full time pastor not just a preacher.
He usually not always gets Monday afternoon off. We live in a nice house and drive used cars. My husband and I visit together or we would rarely see each other. We have taken 3 vacations in 22 years. We are tired, mentally, physically and every once in a while spiritually. God is good to us and we are thankful. The current society does not labor like old biblical times.
But for me and my house, we will serve the Lord! We keep running the race for the prize and I just ask that you pray for us to continue so. But read further, and Jesus tells his disciples to take no money, but instead to accept the hospitality of others. He also says that whomever works, deserves to be fed. To think ministers of the gospel are not to be taken care of, but instead are to rely on themselves for provision, is to ignore the full of scripture. Most of the time a pastor is not just the planter, but the administrator, secretary, counselor and the one that goes out to bring people in.
The runner that works to make things happen to build and strengthen you, etc. If one is truly called, it was never about the money from the beginning. Because so many pastors have messed up and took money from people illegally it makes all pastors look bad. There are some true honest pastors who has to deal with real problematic people.
People with battered and abusive backgrounds, bad relationships or divorced, family members whose children are on drugs or some type of substance abuse and seek counseling from the pastor. People who bring their friends for you to counsel. You laboring fasting and praying for the people. You know that you desire to touch their hearts as a pastor, like Jesus did. You want to see them healed, whole and set free, etc.
You do all you can and you as a leader is treated like all people want is to use you, but they forget that you are a person to, you are human. There is not enough money in this world that could pay a true leader. The government looks at the church as a business, but the pastor looks at it as a ministry. But because you live in this world, you must obey the laws of the land. Everyone who you try to get to work in the church now wants to get paid, so the pastor takes the responsibility to do whatever it takes to keep the doors open for the few that want Christ, want to live right.
The pastor studies, reads, pray, seek ways to feed the flock of God, but never get the credit for what they really do. This is just a tid bit. People who complains need to work in the pastors shoes but at the same time have the same compassion as the pastor has. Everybody has a different view. Some received their license off the internet and was never called. Some do it because it looks good and they love to get praise. I think that teaching for free would be the goal of most pastors. Or Peter, or Paul? They all left their professions and spent all their time ministering.
And those people stayed with congregation members and were fed by them. So if a pastor is to not be paid by the church, then the pastor and their family should be housed and fed by the church. I have a question or better yet a concern. I am a member of a church , a very small church at that, however the Pastor is paid very well and he has a very wel paid secular job.
This job has him leaving church in a hurry because he is scheduled to go to work, and actually he miss some services. Mind you this Pastor is only there to preach on each Sunday. Charlie, Good questions and concerns about your Pastor who has a second job that has him running from church to the second job. I am a Pastor and I have a few thoughts. First, your Pastors job is to lead worship and proclaim the Gospel. That is a basic expectation of every pastor. So if a second job is interfering with that then you as a congregation need to put a stop to that and communicate the expectations clearly with your Pastor.
Never, ever to fulfill an agenda of any kind. Your congregation might also want to hold your pastor accountable to that standard. Hope these thoughts help. You should get yourself another pastor. Better yet, pray together about members of the church entering into the offices, perhaps share the expenses for training. Dear Zack, I do agree with what you said but you stated false information, Paul didnt accept any funds except from the Philippians. He was infact a tent maker and that is how he raised his funds.
He did however say it is not wrong to pay ministers. Because they have a right to be payed. In the book of Acts Paul was making tent at the time preaching the gospel. And truly live off the generosity of the people just like Jesus, the twelve disciples, and the Apostle Paul did. Were not the disciples told to only bring the clothes on their back, because, indeed, a worker is worthy of their wages? If a Pastor desires the LUXURY of owning his own house and having a certain type of car, he should get a second job and pay for it that way.
I am a member at a medium size church people on average probably. This makes him give approx 55 hours a week of his time and you want him to work for free? This does not include the extra time he spends at home reading the bible and having people over for dinners, etc. I want my pastor to live well. I do not want him to be a CEO and make 3 million a year in base salary and million in stocks and bonds, but he should not have to worry about providing for his family. I want my pastor to be able to provide everything I stated above with good mental, physical, and spiritual health.
I work 60 hours a week and I am in grad school as is my wife. We cannot meet every demand and have to pick and choose what to put the most energy into during the day. We had to sacrifice our mental, physical, and spiritual well-being for many years to accomplish what we have. I am thankful that my pastor does not have another job because when my wife and I had issues 4 years ago he came over at the moment I called him at 10pm to provide some marriage counseling and then continued to do so until my wife and I worked things out. If he was working that night or could not provide these services to us for free then we might not be together today.
I could go on forever why this argument about pastor not being paid is not only selfish, but it is also unbiblical. What do you think people who go to churches where a pastor had several hundred members and simply CANNOT handle their issues immediately do? They go to another Christian who is well versed in the Word and experienced in martial issues. Sadly, there is so much greed and corruption within the church today.
Some leaders even prey on many who are barely getting by such as those on disability. Long story short, I had one Pastor guilt me into giving only to have my washing machine go on the fritz the very next week. He panned out the water for me bc I feared it would leak down to the apt below mine. Made no mention of how I was to figure out during illness how I would get wet laundry up 2 flights of stairs. I felt no real belonging, I felt used.. The way they saw my illness was punishment. Not Jesus and the Boys, Why you might ask? I will leave that to you to determine for yourselves..
There is much going wrong in the Church today. I strongly feel if we take away the money aspect of it, it defuses the power everyone seems to find to be so attractive. Jesus did not take payment for the gospel and no matter how many want to distort that truth through multiple interpretations, in my book, it just reinforces the fact that money is their motive…and not Love as it ought to be. Especially because it is humans that are the hands and feet of Christ and humans make mistakes. The irony is that for those not in vocational ministry their responsibility is also clearly presented in the scriptures, perhaps even more so than that of those in vocational ministry…and my experience screams of miss-handlings due to pride, vanity, lust, etc.
A long time ago I struggled with all these questions; so much so that it affected my ability to serve and to give. I believe if anything He will ask why I allowed my opinion on these things to affect the way that I walked this thing out. Our responsibility is to give generously and sacrificially whether we believe the tithe is relevant today or not…to give, to walk, and to trust.
Hey Roz…and exactly who trained congregations to act this way? Seems like things are maybe coming home to roost in the American church. Pastors have invested too much in fads, avoiding scripture, feel good programs that drive consumerism and on and on. And you wonder why churches have the problems they do? Pastors can hardly complain about a problem they created themselves. In the bible they were tending to the crops and working outside of ministry. It should be a volunteer position so that there are no bad motives.
However, I do not believe that one person should have to do all of the volunteering. They had jobs. How do you think they made a living. Jesus was a carpenter by trade. They fished. They were fishing when the waters became rough. Jesus helped them catch fish in one verse. Here is my concern. We asked our pastor to write down what he did each week and he replied with a list of items. He said that all these items are part of Gods work in some way and so we should not question his motives. Also spending money on working lunches without a clear explanation for need. Do you think I am being too picky?
Is it reasonable to ask for a full disclosure of his time and written explain of these lunches and dinners. Should he spend more time at the church and less time else-ware. He asked for a sabbatical this summer and was turned down by a unanimous decision. He became very upset. As a result one of our trustees resigned from her position because of guilt. This all makes me question how independent churches are run. I have often said that you can have church in the woods.
I really want to do the right thing. Sometimes, I am truly amazed at the closed minds of people. Much is Said on here about delegation of work by the Pastor and being a whole church where everyone works and oh yes that thing about if you want a home get another job. Take some time to read a Bible and see how the Apostle Paul addresses the issue of caring for an Elder. Look beyond the human instinct to insist that someone else do all the sacrificing while you set home in your house enjoying your family and the material possessions you have been blessed with.
Am I complaining? No, I am not. But it is so amazing to me that I see comments with absolutely no foundation being thrown about. Let me tell you something about the average Pastor in an average sized church. When there is no money for supplies he buys, when there is no money for a family in need he gives, when there is no money for utility bills he takes it out of his salary, when the church needs painted he does it, when the toilets are stopped up he cleans them, when he is accused of not doing enough he does more. Yep, sure sounds like a guy who needs to be criticized for trying to take care of his family.
Read the Bible listen to the Holy Spirit and take care of your Pastor. I respect everyones opinion but you cant comment if your not going through the experience of working in the secular then working harder for t he kingdom and raising a family. By the way next time you visit your doctor tell him you need to be treated for free. Excellent point, Cesar. After all, Jesus healed for free too. He also fed people for free, so we should not pay for our food. Yes we can comment. You are working for GOD when you pastor, not man. Please do not compare church work to secular work.
In that respect a pastor is no different than any other human being striving to use their God given gift to make a positive impact on the world in which we live. It is not what we do that determines if we are working for God it is how we do it — are we moving through our day in a way that reflects the values taught by Jesus. I am confused by those who would rather see a pastor hold a second job to provide for his financial needs than be fully focused on helping others come to a true understanding of Christ and what he lived and died for.
There is no piety in poverty and a good pastor should be free from financial worry as should anyone who works hard to contribute.
Help a Reader: Child Support Taking All Our Money!
I guess at the end of the day I would rather see an honest pastor living in the lap of luxury than watching those that do nothing to contribute to the spiritual well being of our world do so. I guess in that logic no Christian should ever get paid because they are working for the Lord. How would you like that? As a Christian you are working for God and not for man. According to Colossians we are all to work as if working for the Lord? If we are followers of Christ then they are all ministry jobs…We are all working for the Lord.
So by your reasoning, no Christian should expect compensation for their work. After all, they are doing it for the Lord. If it is true for pastors, it is true for everyone. I however am a pastor. I was once asked to come to a church and serve as pastor. It meant moving four hours away and uprooting my wife and four kids from her job and their school. We liked the church and was beginning to feel as if God was calling us there. However, one member of the search committee that found me did not wish to discuss compensation until after my wife and I quit our current positions, sold our house and moved with our kids to their town.
Explain something to me. If taking care of my family and making sure I can provide for them is not part of my Christian duty, then what is exactly? I told them I would not give them an answer until I knew what they were going to offer as salary. They made an offer. I accepted first offer. Was I being wordly by expecting to know what my salary would be? Would you uproot your family and move not knowing if you were even going to be paid minimum wage? Also, I learned the hard way before this by relocating to a church on faith. By the way, neither of these two churches would allow me to take another job to compensate.
Can someone explain to me the difference. My churches have always approved the salary which they and provided it with their generous contributions. Does calling it salary make it unspiritual? I fail to see the difference. The Church wants, needs a full time shepherd, He, his wife and family are required in the eyes of the people to fulfill great expectations, do you realize the stress of keeping people happy.
A Pastor gives his life, he eats, breathes and has many sleepless nights. He rejoices in the struggles for they push him to be more Christ like, glory to glory, faith to faith. He rejoices in his trials for he sees the greater purpose, is it easy no, no cross is easy. God bless all shepherds and thank you for your faithfulness. Plant your seeds for you shall reap a harvest in due time put your trust in the Lord and stay there. The verse talks about healing and raising the dead and casting out demons, God speaks of nothing concerning the regular duties of Pastoring i.
Preaching, counseling etc. Good thoughts and all the pastors I know including my husband do teach for free just as a lay person does. They teach Bible study groups, Discipleship classes, etc. The pastors I know have chosen this vocation because of their passion for the Biblical message and they tend to take on more than their job requires to fulfill the mandate the sense from the God they serve. My children have also helped by serving for free too, helping with VBS, running errands, childcare as they got older and etc.
However, this distinction appears no where in scripture or early church life and only polarizes Christians. A church would do well to have everyone understand that when they meet together in the church, it is for the edification of all by all. I am amazed and astounded that so many of you Christians are so misinformed and cheap and uneducated about Gods worth about tithing. You all act as if the money you earn is your money when in fact, everything that you have is from God and belongs to God.
To not pay a pastor is beyond belief and complete foolishness. If any member of my church made that comment to me I would recommend that they find another church. People who expect to have the pastor work for free probably know very little about tithing and generous giving.
You, when you die, hopefully have the opportunity to kneel before Jesus and then you will have to explain why you squandered and buried your 1 talent in the field. I am not a pastor. I am a self employed business man and I have also worked in the corporate world for 23 years.
I am a deacon of our church and I am on the financial committee. How much do you tithe? Remember, its not your money, its Gods money. This tithing practice was propagated after pews stopped getting rented by the rich families. Tithing was always a one time deal, promised once on whatever future providence was given by God, and calculated only on war spoils and crops.
The only uneducated fools are the god-fiends who prey on good-willed people. Anyone can speak Christianese for profit. It takes a true low-life to make a profession of it. I believe you are taking these scripture verses out of context. Others have been quoted that contradict what you are saying. Show me one place in the Bible that specifically shows a priest not being compensated in some way, according to God, for the work God ordains them to do.
If you have ever had to preach a sermon on a Sunday morning to souls that you know are very hungry and anticipating an anointed message that will be a breath of life for them after having worked all night at a secular job, feeling entirely exhausted and unprepared, I think there would be more sensitivity to how hard it is to be a bi-vocational pastor.
I have had to do that. Many times. Men will be judged harshly if they do not present the scriptures accurately! Not only do I work shift work to provide for my wife and six children I also provide for my disabled parents. On days that I work on day shift my alarm goes off at am I get to the church building by and pray until 5. I leave at 5 and get to my secular job by because I commute. I then work a twelve hour shift and get off work at pm. I get back home by in the evening. I have dinner and spend a few hours with the kids until about Around that time we start getting ready for bed and start our family worship time around 9.
We try to get the kids in bed by but it usually is closer to ten. Sometimes I will be up until midnight studying before I go to sleep. And periodically have periods of fasting as the scripture instructs me Acts Friends, preparing a sermon is not something that can be done in a few minutes. It takes time to get into the right frame of mind, to labor in prayer that the Holy Spirit will grant understanding of the passage, to piece it together from start to finish, and then to face nervousness because you know that every word will be heavily criticized and effectively communicate it in a way that the people can receive.
The last thing a pastor wants to do is make a mistake! If you as a congregation can afford to relieve him from any excess, do it! When he studies and prays and hears from God, you are a benefactor! Unfortunately there were no church pastors yet in these scriptures because the church did not yet exist. These scriptures here are taken greatly out of context. My husband has been teaching the people for free for 13 years and nobody gives anything.
Pastor holds a secular job. However, for the last 2 or more years, they have accused us of mismanaging the little bit we get from his MOTHER, and occasionally a former member. I bought and started my small off grid farm with my own hard earned overtime and secular work at I met him and married him at There is no rent or electric bill out here at least.
We also have spent money from his job and yes, our offerings from his mom and former member, on church members that seem to think our job is driving them around at all hours of the day or night to and from the hospital and buying them food and feeding them a meal while we took them to shop as we are the only ones with a car. And they conveniently forget we did this for them. Your hermeneutics are skewed. Did you see the moral condition of the people Micah was speaking to? He had his every day job — just like most people.
We had share a dish dinners throughout the week to seek counsel of worship and feed the congregation! Can mean a lot of different things! This is awesome! It is sad that most pastors now are seeking money and light work. This goes to say that it can be accomplished by volunteers. Read your Bible again. That is truly the most ridiculous thing I have heard in a long time. Yes, it is a struggle to share the gospel with others.
Various Combinations Of $500,000 Households
The Bible does not say that a person has to struggle financially to share the gospel. Please, you read your Bible. Be good to everyone, especially to those in the Household of Faith. And muzzle not the ox…….
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My goodness. Hey, tell me why a pastor would have to live any lower than his members. Come on now. Give that some more thought. A Pastor is a human being who needs to be compensated like the rest of us and his compensation package should not be thought of as salary. I am teacher and my health and death benefits are not part of my salary. If a Pastor is getting free living …. That is utilities and rent free. Willa, this is one of The best statements in this blog. Our pastors should be compensated. I want him focusing on The Word and further strengthening his annointance throughout the week to uplift the congregation and community.
A Pastor should be able to financially support himself. If a Pastor desires more than what the congregation gives him, get a second JOB and stop being a burden to the church. We ALL work for the same kingdom, sheesh. Next time one of your family members is sick and in the hospital and you want someone to visit at the drop of a hat at any time of the day or night, you call one of those people. Or you need someone to perform a funeral. Or to counsel you through a crisis. Another point: Are we all not called to live our lives and do our jobs for the Kingdom of God?
By your logic, none of us should be paid. So enjoy life on the commune. I am simply astonished at the number of comments on this post which suggest that pastors should not be paid or that argue one way or another entirely on the basis of pragmatic arguments. In the same way, the Lord commanded that those who proclaim the gospel should get their living by the gospel 1 Corinthians ESV. The only appropriate response for those arguing against what the LORD commands is repentance.
They HAD to give up their secular because they were traveling all over. The help that local pastors get today with air conditioned church buildings and staff would be considered a luxury back then. They have very different responsibilities. There lies the problem. The Pastor was NEVER intended to be the only person to go visit the sick, provide counseling, teach the youth, do administrative work, etc. The truth is, no one man or woman can effectively Pastor several hundred people all at once. Remember a Pastor was never intended to be the head of the church.
If a pastor wants to take on more than he can chew that is on HIM. Where in scripture does it describe where the apostles, elders, etc. Seems to me the Holy Spirit bestows gifts upon people for the nourishing of the Body of Christ. Pastors should be hard workers. It is possible for them to have a job during the week to take care of their finances and still volunteer minister. Let us all know how that goes. And will the employer of your paid job understand when you have to leave unexpected because one of your church members has an emergency, or because you have to do a funeral?
How about your co-workers? The common misconception seems to be that pastors only preach on Sunday. The fact is that pastors visit the sick, often take care of church business, actively study for preaching of the Word and teaching Bible study. Some even mow the church lawns and take care of maintenance. The more time and support the pastor has to do the work of the ministry without having to worry about their daily needs, the better.
Who plants a vineyard without eating any of its fruit? Or who tends a flock without getting some of the milk? In the same way, the Lord commanded that those who proclaim the gospel should get their living by the gospel. Is that in the job description of a Pastor to do all that? Is there only supposed to be ONE person responsible for visiting the sick and shut in? Maybe we should start sterilizing some of these hussies. A bimbo? My husband and his wife ended the marriage way before I came on board. My husbands exwife is psychotic. The husband could have a new wife now and children that his income also is providing for.
Also some women are out to destroy their exs financially. The child support laws are screwed up! First of all lets stop calling custodial women single parents. My mother never took a cent from my father. He was a true piece of s—t! Rarely showed his face. Answer these questions… What happens to a family when times get hard and for many living in poverty is lifelong?
Do they have to cut back on spending. Do they find other ways of supporting our acquiring the better things in life? Do they simply have to tell their children and themselves no, at times? When times are good what happen? Do all in the family benefit? But their own income as well as the income of their new spouse.
Most are hard pressed to belive that money solves everything and that love takes a back seat in child rearing. Tell That to half of Americans that lost their father due to oppressive legal action. A man can only take so much. It only gets harder. And my bonds with my children have become loosened. But if he is willing to be repaints, let him. Remember it took the both of them to make the child. Both parties will have to soul search and gave what they did wrong, not place the blame on the man.
The system places blame on the man as soon as separation is a thought. Then bathed children put them to sleep. And then went to my bedroom, climbed over a mountain of clothes knocked the debris of my bed and tried to get rest. But at least my kids got to see me. We had strong bonds, my babies and I. I also helped support her first born from a previous including health insurance, who by the way she had no court mandates on at all!
I loved him and bonded with him too. Now she is on her fourth child from a new unwed relationship trying to prove to our children god knows what. And miserable as hell. Give me a break! And teach them that when they think of marrying, child support enforcement could very well be a fact of life if it were to fail. And also give failed marriage statistics to key them know what they could be getting into. For the original question, do what you have to. A free man acts as a free man even when he knows there may be repercussions. Think of what rent for a two-three bedroom house or apartment costs and double it because a father should be entitled to the same living standard and equal parenting time as the mother.
There is no scientific proof that a mother is more fit than a mother. Housing — A custodial parent and her new spouse or no spouse can live in a studio apartment if they really need to for a short time because why should a non-custodial father have to live in a studio apartment but you not feel as if a mother should have to? Or THEY need to plan to pay for private school.
You are clearly sexist and hold mom to a higher standard based off gender. Dad was also apart of a two parent home and Mom could get married at any point in time. For all we know, mom could be in a serious relationship for a longer length of time than dad but refused to get married to reap the benefits of state funded programs!
Happens all the time! Neither parent gets off at 5. Or if one does, they work within both of their schedules! If you do research on the matter , fathers child support obligations are higher than mothers in almost every single case. Custodial parents typically pay less. In almost every case, non custodial parents pay child support on top of a matched percentage of daycare which you pointed custodial parents must pay for which is typically false but not always.
You are clearly a very bitter single mother. Would you be able to NOT become frustrated? Would you be able to not become heartbroken when a power hungry ex dangled your children in front of you and used them as a paycheck and was never satisfied with the amount of money they received as support? Rachel… I am not going to debate much, because I need to get back to work. But your argument is way off. This does not show up on her income reports though because child support is not declared as income! And I go into the red if she takes the kids to the doctor that month.
So yeah… you just go ahead and try to argue that this a fair situation and that the dads on this board are paying what the deserve to be paying. Go ahead… try to do it. My husband was totally screwed by his ex-wife. I knew this when I married him but I had no idea how hard it would be to do a modification on our own. My husband fell into arrears because of alimony. Months into his divorce, which she initiated, he lost his job. The arrears just kept piling up. She has zero financial concerns. So she always wins. I don;t make enough money to make up the difference of what she takes from us each week.
Maybe a baby sitter but not full on daycare. The child I speak of has full health benefits, lives in a large comfortable home and father pays for all extracurricular activities. Yep another one. Poor poor kids.. Then suddenly it would be maybe taxes or gas are the problem..
If this is a burden, hand the children over to your spouse. I am yet to see one child support recipient put money away for their child college, at least no meaningful amount of money. Is that so? I on the other hand have a child in my care and a court order to say so yet his narcassistic father refused to return him and he refuses to come home hitting me for full child support a fast before he planned to just take him froM school. I may as well put in my two cents. It is the responsibility of the father to help.
I see that as fair. Do I put him through this ….. Proven by state wide CS. No more childsupport… Eighteen year olds are old. This is all legal. So how if you must check the internet…. If you must. Then the ex does not have to pay one cent forwards that child by state law. This is a woman with two college degrees. The honest ones paying get screwed. The ones that show up in court get screwed. My husbands ex has 4 kids only one is his. She gets child support from two other guys for the other two kids. All four have different daddies. Income babies! Some women just have them to earn them money believe me I know a few who openly admit it!
Sick society! Lol, this response is ridiculous. Use your brain and analyze how the judicial system puts them in an impeccable bind. How can you possibly raise your children in a loving manner if your faced with homelessness due to the greedy capitalistic society that wants to starve fathers, who would otherwise be successful components to the world and most importantly their children.
I have seen plenty of women that do t even work make more than me because they just live off there kids and use them like paychecks. I just think about it like this…my husband pays a month for his children and she wants more. His ex is lazy and his kids always look homeless when they visit. You say kids…. Grow up. Nor does her husband. Deadbeats live off of welfare checks. You must be a blood sucking ex wife. I think my ex husband had to pay too much and insisted it be dropped so he could afford to live. The system meant to protect children and the custodial parent is legalized theft in our household.
You understand that housing is an expense? Sorry, you just have no idea what it costs to raise a kid. I mean, it costs more than that for just daycare alone. Just the basic stuff. The kicker? And yet I was the bad guy here for simply insisting that she gets enough money to play with on her own and that she should have to justify anything extra. I agree these judges now feel sorry for the dads and are way to sympathetic to them. The women by nature in most cases does more for the children. Also children voices are not heard because they are children and that causes alot of damage and leaves judges in the dark.
Hell ya. I mean look at the hardworking self rellient generation we have now. Thank god for the woman who knows how to raise em.. Play video games and just be…. I know more gold digging, cheating wives that automatically get custody and C. Most men have spent there entire relationship with said woman, trying to keep their family together and be good Godly husbands and Dads, look at any police deadbeats website…. A lot of women use kids to bleed ex hubbies. I know one who abused her hubby for 20 years. Bankrupted him. Now gets 16 k per month and all she does is do awful plastic surgery on her face and body.
Everytime he sees her in court she looks different. My thoughts exactly. And just landed an awesome passing job. But what I was giving before was half my check. Why keep increasing what I have to pay? Because we all know that a cs payment of a month is not all used for the child. Nope, you are not allowed to move on and any women who fall in love with you are not allowed to have a child wish and are doomed — doomed for love and doomed for sticking it out while the ex is whining she has a hard time WITH the support not ever thinking how hard it must be not only NOT getting support but paying it out while at the same time having also a family.
There is programs for free daycare for low income parents or for working parents so the daycare cost are not necessarily that high if at all present, food on a kid can be paid by the government including also the WIC programs, clothing -there is a lot of cheap second hand around, formula can be paid by WIC, medical can be covered in full by Medicaid. So to say a child costs that much is crazy. And still the exes kids think that the non-custodial does nothing for them cause he cant afford to buy them DIRECTLY presents since so much support is taken out.
Child support is made for money hungry women. Which is bull shit that is saying the first kids are the only ones that matters. That just makes women not want to deal with a man who is on child support. And before you money hungry women start complaining about my comments. I have 3 kids get no child support and yes my husband is on child support for two other kids and all his money gets taken. And if I ever get a divorce I would never expect the next women to take care of my kids. I feel bad for the guys who get screwed because of child support.
The system gives everything to women and leaves the man shit out of luck. And of course for the second women who gives the man a chance gets screwed too. And to the women who said this lady married into it you are dead wrong. The ex wife nerds to own up for her own kids just like I do. She has the prize. Why is that the burden? When my brother got a divorce he had to pay plus maintenence.
But when the boys got older and he got custody. And he is happy with no support cause he has the boys. He got the prize. I agree with you, in the sense that what the child support is at the time of marriage breakdown should be, what it is. So now, I take it upon myself to study, further my career and make more money, why should she have her hands on that hard work?
The CS guidelines basically leaves me scratching the bottom of my car for change to feed them, clothe them and entertain them a bit. I mean, I just bought a 9 year old car an upgrade in order to keep them safe on the roads and had to beg my bank to make it into a 4 year loan so I can afford payments on it. Im left with nothing! All because she cheated and I decided to leave the marriage. Seems unfair, especially for the men who love their kids and try and spend as much time with them as possible and Pay their exes without question.
Now, the other side of the coin is the fact that CS is so much because the children need to keep the same lifestyle as they did before the marriage breakdown. Tea, your post is very informative, however if they remain married even with separate accounts it has been documented that the income is there and available. The first post was good advice. Legally divorce the current wife. As for the legal divorce; man cannot separate what God has put together.
When it comes to child support no man out there is going to win. Not to bad mouth all women, but they own you when you have a child with them. Ive seen many a friend go through the same situation time after time. Today many of young men are saying no to marriage and is there any wonder why. Marriage is nothing but a legal document that is signed by both parties so legally the man is agreeing to give up control of his life to his wife and kids. There is a huge number of men that are deciding to not get married.
Marriage is for women only, when are men going to take their set of jewels back and own them for himself. Today most all marriages that are made and then when the divorce comes it is filed by their wives. They cannot come out on the bad end of the deal. There is no such thing as commitment anymore from anyone. Marriage doesnt mean equal commitment.
Im warning anyone not to do it. Ive studied psychology for many years and there is a much larger pool of women than in the older days that are just not marriage material anymore. Even today when you look at it who is complaining about men not wanting to get married anymore. Women can change as fast as a heartbeat. They are always looking for the better deal for themselves, and who has the upper hand. They do!!!!!! Do your research. We have nothing to gain by telling you this.
Sorry, but no self respecting woman, smart woman who understands that life is life and precautions must be taken in ALL things, will ever want to get involved with you..! The contract of marriage is a legal form of protection, as you NEVER can predict how things will turn out, and legal system stands behind a woman or any custodial parent she is the one who takes on the most of work load on when it comes to children…. As a woman going through a difficult custody battle and not seeing a dime of child support in the meantime even though I am under-employed for the sole purpose of caring for the children , I am going advise the following.
Let go of your resentment. Make a budget and stick to it. When the child support payments increase, re-do the budget. You husband made a commitment to his first wife and an even bigger commitment when they had children. He is obligated to care for them. End of story. Like you said, you knew this when you married him.
You might not be able to have everything you want right now, but the most important thing is to make a budget according to how you ARE able to live. We are just as capable of parenting as yall are. You all know how to manipulate the system. We matched them to his statements that he brought from his bills.
I worked with him and it was an agreement that I was okay with, because it was based on honesty. She thinks it was a choice, which it was not. They only have one child together. Before we moved, we had his son every other week, they have joint custody, and they make the same amount of money. When he moved down to Texas, she got angry and went to court to raise his child support, child care, etc even though we offered to send her money for half of the child care, half of the extracurricular activities, and half of anything else she would need for him.
A temporary order was put in place back in February until our objections can be heard, which her lawyer keeps getting permission to delay the court hearing, maybe he and the judge are buddies, who knows. Our court hearing is on Tuesday next week, hopefully we get some relief and no delay. I am not trying to get out of paying child support, by all means, but there is a line between reasonable and unreasonable.
If the child is supposed to enjoy the same standard of living as when they were married, then why is she living high on the hog while we are rationing milk to our kids?!! There are now to separate incomes, houses, expenses, bills…double everything. They look at it as though your love for your child directly relates to the amount child support you pay, which is the furthest from the truth.
If I had a dollar everytime I heard a woman say that…lol. I completely agree with crankymomm, I married my husband and his children. I am happy to help support these children through thick and thin. This essentially means that now their mother has a financial responsibility to help support her children.
Raul — I agree that often men seem to be mistreated both from not gaining custody to having to be more finanically responsible. However, in our home state whoever makes more money is more financially responsible for the care of the children. In our case that means my husband, whether he has custody of the children or not. However here is a concept….. They are his children! He cares more about them than being bitter about money related to taking care of them.
Over the past 9 years that means he and I have made many sacrifices, but that is what you do for your children! And if one parent works more than who is watching your children?! They need constant parenting and a healthy enviornment. If you want you kids and are capable as you indicate in your post, than go file for more custody! Prove to the courts that the children should be in your care because it is in their best interest. But really money should have nothing to do about what is in the best interest of your children.
Bottom line — think about who you are marrying and having children with! You both chose a divorce and therefore you are in this situation, stop playing the victim role and just be a great parent who provides emotionally and financially. Focus most on raising these children the best you can, enjoy the moments while they are here. Soon enough the children will grow up and move on. In a few years you all can take more vacations and have more money.
Your statements may apply to some, but definitely not all. Divorce is. Both parents rarely agree to a divorce. In my case my wife commits adultery, and files for divorce after I find out about it.
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Was I mad? Have I ever hit her? She files an injunction on me after I leave the state and gives a fake address where I live. So the injunction becomes active on me. Through routine check my employer informs me and I go down to Florida to contest it. My children? I have no contact with them at all. I love my children dearly. Through joint friends I have been told that in that year, my oldest has raped a 6 yo, 2nd oldest has been arrested 2 times for arsen, and 3rd oldest has been expelled from school for fighting.
I am heartbroken and cry every night because I am being denied access to my children. My lawyer could care less just like the last one. My wife is laughing at the state of Florida and I am devastated, going bankrupt and will lose my job because it requires a security clearance.
Financial problems will remove my clearance. If I loose my job, I will not be able to afford to make my payments… I just learned that my oldest could be molesting my 2 younger children… My lawyer? Where are you and why are you not on my side? Cost now? I know the feeling I now must live on and maintain the same level of living that once supported a family of three on half as much. I have no doubts how they paid for there two plus week trip to Europe last Summer! But yesallwomen you better check yourmaleprivilege. My husband is going through the same.
Ex wife cheated and left for more money, a ton more. Did I mention that she also lied to the court and had his time reduced, no matter how much proof that he brought in. I am also a mother of three from my first marriage. I have given back his CS at times when he was struggling financially. I choose my kids happiness and well being over money. Unfortunately, this is usually the case. Men, please stop marrying and having children with women who behave this way.
You are marrying actresses who manipulate their way into your bed and you get comfortable because she makes you feel like you are the supporter and she wants a family with a dog and picket fence. Amazingly, she wants a family that is not living together. Men, you are compromising your integrity and the rest of your life with a woman who could be the best thing that has ever happened to you, and all for a woman you thought was someone different. I feel sorry for your situation, however, the marriage and court systems need to change so that couples can live in harmony, without the comfort of knowing that an ex-wife can sit at home, have sex with whomever she wants, ignore the children and receive payments from the ex.
I believe that in order to receive alimony or child support, a woman must maintain a certain income after the children are 4. I also believe that child support and alimony should not be paid in cash. It should all be tracked on what is actually being used and where. I also believe that the children should maintain a certain grade in school and have a certain acceptable behavior and upbringing for the custodial parent to remain the custodial parent and receive payments.
As a Mother of 3 and a step-mother of 2, I am very familiar with both the struggles of being a single mother as well as the devastation of ridiculous CS. I ask this question honestly as a mother who financially supported my son solely on my own. My advice to you: 1. Teaching them that every choice has a consequence and a strong work ethic will take you much farther than a handout!
Bitterandcold, I agree with you completely! As someone who has lived on both sides, not receiving a dime in CS for my son to marrying a man who pays out the butt…the world is full of women who are always searching for greener pastures and act as though they have no financial responsibilities for the children that they brought into this world.
Child support laws are unrealistic and extremely biased against NCPs. They alternate full weeks during the summer and school breaks and my husband has to pay the full support amount to her even when we have his son for those weeks. So, we are providing food, clothing and entertainment, etc. My husband and I have 2 children under 8. This is unrealistic. So, every time he works hard and gets a raise she can go back for more money? I would never condone him not supporting his son but child support should be based on the standard of living at the time of divorce as no one can say for sure that their career paths would have gone the way that they have had they stayed together.
My husband will tell you for a fact that he would not be where he is professionally if they had stayed together. Who can say what kind of lifestyle the child would have enjoyed? So, basically my husband busts his hump working sometimes 80 hours per week and in the end she benefits. He went to school full-time and worked full-time to get his degree while supporting his family and she benefits.
There is no accountability and a line needs to be drawn. In this state first children come first. What about their lifestyle? My husband can work his tail off but they are not entitled to the same quality of life that their older brother is because he came first and daddy was married before? How fair is that? What about her accountability and responsibility. There is absolutely no way that she cannot afford to provide for my step-son on less than she gets for CS. Something needs to be done about this. Why is that not taken into account? BTW, the ex-wife went to college about 6 years ago and was bragging about this new, higher paying job she was getting until her lawyer told her that her CS would decrease based on that salary so she actually turned down the job.
Do you think the court punished her for it? Of course not! Careful with that. I filed for divorce, because my husband never did any kind of paperwork for the family…I always payed the bills and filed the taxes and got cars registered, too, during the marriage. But he was the one who left the house, and he was the one who wanted the divorce. I actively did not want it. And he does pay both child support and alimony, because we always prioritized his career over mine. There is more than one possible story. You are so right Richard. How could your husband get full custody against a woman?
We are in a bad situation now with my husband, because of his ex gf and it stresses me out because he is really depressed and i am afraid of losing him. I do receive child support for my 3 kids but I was completely reasonable and my ex thanks me almost weekly for being so reasonable. So guess who has to pick up the slack?! Ya me.. I agree with you, but you are much nicer about it than I am. I would continue to say that I have no sympathy for her, that it is what it is and stop bitching because I can guarantee that the mother and the children have it MUCH worse.
That the mother scrapes and probably goes without so her kids should have things, well the husband should do the same!!! She has no clue!! Just my opinion. YOU did not sound harsh and I do not think I was that bad either because I could say so, so much more!! Kack — I have to disagree completely. I seldom saw child support for my two oldest children and had to struggle to make everything work out. We all know how expensive it is to raise a child these days. I had jobs I definitely would have preferred to avoid, from being a correctional officer in a maximum security prison and a second job at night at a chicken processing plant.
I also eventually joined the military so we could have some degree of security, financially and medically we have a special needs child. Right from the start though, I disagreed with what the court said it would be for child support. Granted, I seldom saw that either, but it was a figure that allowed for me to put them in childcare while I worked as well, and do some of the things the kids enjoying doing.
Fast forward to the other side of things. She blows money like it grows on trees and then comes around with sob stories about her utilities going to be cut off. Meanwhile, we continually tell our children we have to save in order to go to the movies, or the shoes that teens think they must have will have to wait until a birthday or something along those lines. We both work, pay for childcare, and I go to school as well. We are suffering and get no assistance at all.
While the ex-wife gets child support from three different men, welfare, foodstamps, free healthcare, and commits IRS fraud by having someone else claim her kids so she can get more money.