None of these people of the same name would necessarily have the same DNA and because of their professions being widespread it would be difficult to say they had a common origin.
You are also assuming that a persons name has not changed for what ever reason or that they are actually related to one or both parents. The explanation given on the website looked more like a little bit of knowledge and a very large amount of guess work. Hi Esnuni, I read the article in the link you gave and to be honest I am not impressed with it.
Whether that is with the author of the article or the book I cannot tell without reading the book but I can see problems with it. We know there was a huge influx of people into Britain from the fifth century, the English, but these are not mentioned. But the archaeological evidence clearly shows that they arrived in the fifth century and then spread across the country. And how do you separate the English from Denmark and the Danes from Denmark? But again is this interpretation correct. Are we looking at people from Spain moving to Britain or those from Britain moving to Spain? The Atlantic Culture went both ways.
And what happened to the original population of Britain, which I noticed was not mentioned? There was a very large population here at that time, what happened to them? For something which was supposed to answer questions it has raised many more which need answering. Irish legends say Ireland was settled in waves, with the Gaels arriving late a few centuries BC from Galicia.
Allegedly but impossibly Ireland was spotted from the top of a tower. However, it is a fact that the "Tower of Hercules", a 55 metre Roman lighthouse built on the site of a previous Galician one, faces north toward Ireland. The Celtic Sea between Ireland, South-West Britain and Brittany and the Bay of Biscay have always contained major trading routes and still do ; this is how the "Atlantic" cultures came to share many characteristics.
Galicia was the homeland of Count Theodosius and his son the Emperor Theodosius.
In Gratian was the western Emperor but he was losing the support of many Romans because he favoured the Alans, a tribe from central Asia of Iranian origins. Magnus's troops and many British people urged him to invade Gaul and depose Gratian. He did so, landing in Armorica the region west of the Seine and north of the Loire , where he established a base manned by troops from Powys and Gwynedd in Wales, it's said under the command of Conan Meriadoc, a Prince of Powys whose relative Elen, Magnus had married.
Magnus ruled Britain, Gaul, Spain, the western edge of Germany and northern Italy, mostly wisely and certainly popularly, for 5 years, until Emperor Theodosius found the opportunity to build up his own forces and defeat Magnus's main army, then executed him and his son Flavius Victor. The women of Magnus's family were allowed to live, and the base in Armorica remained in Conan's control.
Interestingly, Magnus also seemed to have set up a base in his native Galicia, which maintained close links with Armorica. Around Armorica declared independence from Rome, but remained a staunch ally. The Alan leader offered to surrender the town to Attila if the people were spared. Just then an alliance of the Alans, Armoricans, Visigoths, Franks and Romans arrived and drove Attila east, catching him on the Catalaunian Plain and forcing battle. The Romans captured the local hill before the Huns could, and Aetius the Roman general who blamed the Alans for not all dying before letting the Huns reach Orleans placed the Alans front centre in the hope that the Huns would annihilate them.
However, the Armorican archers protected the Alans and wiped out the Hun front lines. That night was pitch black, so Attila planned a sneak attack on the Roman position, but when he approached it he was shocked to encounter a continual hail of arrows drove him back to his own camp. The Armoricans had done it again. Students of the Hundred Years War will recall how good the Welsh archers were. In the morning, the western allies were ready to storm Attila's camp and knowing this he prepared a bonfire in which to commit suicide. However, Aetius was afraid that with all the Huns dead, the Visigoths under Thorismund would become an overwhelming threat, so he disbanded the army and let Attila live to ravage northern Italy.
The Alans he sent to Armorica and Galicia, thinking they'd cause trouble there, but they were accepted with open arms and settled in nicely, thank you. In , the Visigoths, now under Euric, intended to attack the Romans, so Riothamus the King of the Britons meaning the Armoricans led an expeditionary force to join the Roman emperor Anthemius and meet the threat. A battle was fought east of Avallon in Burgundy a town you can visit today and after hard fighting, Riothamus ordered a retreat of his surviving soldiers.
It's not known whether the King survived, but Arvandus was committed to stand trial for treason. His friend Sidonius Apollinaris pleaded on his behalf and the death penalty was commuted to exile. With the Armoricans severely weakened, the Franks invaded Gaul in force and took Paris from its last Roman commander in The Franks pushed the boundaries of independent Armorica far westward, but they were never able to completely conquer it. Under Frankish influence, Armorica was broken into separate states: western Brittany the independent remnant , eastern Brittany the Breton March and the Counties of Anjou, Maine, Touraine, Blois, and Rouen which would later become the nucleus of Normandy.
The Franks penned the Bretons in with fortifications in depth; this is how it remained throughout Charlemagne's reign. A final push by the Franks under Charles the Bald to conquer all of Brittany on 22 August led to a two-day open battle at Jengland in which the Armoricans systematically whittled down the Frankish army. Charles fled on the second night, leaving his camp to be overrun in the morning. They did take most of Spain, up to the Pyrenees and even advanced to Tours and Poitiers where the Franks and Armoricans defeated them.
But the Muslim attempt to take Galicia met with defeat and Galicia pushed back, beginning the Reconquista, as Galicia gradually expanded and combined with the Spaniards it freed to retake Leon, Asturias, Portugal, Castile and Aragon. The story of Normandy is an interesting one.
Norsemen began raiding the coasts of the British Isles and France in the s. After their defeat by the Bretons, the Franks thought they'd be clever and hire Vikings to attack Brittany.
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But the Bretons had deeper pockets and hired more Vikings to attack Paris. The Norse allies of the Bretons settled in the Loire valley, but in the early s they betrayed them shades of Arvandus and the Goths and overran Brittany, pillaging and destroying all over. The Vikings were now free to pillage France wherever and whenever they liked. The young King of France was deposed by his own court and also fled to England. The French court bought them off by making Rollo the official Count of Rouen and with promises of land in eastern Brittany that wasn't the Franks' to give.
Edward was the godfather of Alan II, the heir to the throne of Brittany. In , Alan led a fleet across the Channel, landed near Dol and in a year of pitched battles recovered his homeland, driving the Vikings of their main southern base of Nantes into the river Loire paradoxically to drown.
Then he allied with the ousted Count of Nantes to defeat the remnant of the Loire vikings at the battle of Trans-La-Foret. The French King then felt it was safe to return home. The Seine Vikings began to take serious notice of this, and they and the Bretons began to form an accommodation.
The Duke of Brittany and the Duke of Normandy married each other's sisters and promised to protect each other's heirs. By , when Harold was appointed King of England and demoted many Bretons and Normans who had reach high station there, Count Eozen of Brittany and Duke William of Normandy had formed a military alliance. Eozen gave his sons Brian and Alan Rufus ships and thousands of troops to join William's ambitious attempt on the English throne. At Hastings, the Breton tactic of the feigned retreat worked wonders and Harold's shield wall slowly crumbled until he had nowhere to hide from the archers and the knights.
Alan was given manors from Harold's Consort, Edith Swannesha, and took her daughter Gunhilda under his wing. Alan served William loyally and grew stronger, but he also made William apologise to York for the Harrying.
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Hi Marie, I found your hub very interesting and informative. I studied archaeology at university which included much on prehistory, Roman Britain and the Anglo Saxons. This coincides with the English arriving from the east after the Romans left. I remember watching Billy Connolly on Hadrain's Wall proclaiming it was built to keep the Scot's out. As they were still in Ireland when it was built it would have been a stupid place to put it.
The Romans called the islands the British Isles and included Ireland within that. And the referred to the people of all the islands as the Britains. I did read several years ago about some DNA research carried out on one of the islands on the Irish west coast. It was thought there would be a chance to find DNA which had not been mixed with that of other groups such as the English of Norwegians. Imagine their surprise when they traced the origins of the DNA and found it came from south east England.
It turns out they had not done the research properly because when Cromwell had been in Ireland he had garrisoned the island and then left them behind when he left. They had married local girls so their DNA turned up. Several years ago a Scandinavian style broach was found in England. Nothing unusual there except that the decoration within it was Irish in style. We know that Norwegians from Ireland would sometimes be part of an a raiding party or even an army such as that defeated by Athelstan.
So why the mixed style? Was he Norwegian with an Irish wife? Irish with a Norwegian wife? Or the son of a mixed Norwegian Irish marriage? Anyway, again thanks for the hub. I thought it was well written and I look forward to reading more. Very interesting info! I'm glad I found you. I'll be a follower now and I can't wait to read more.
Thanks for sharing! Hi Marie, Being of Irish ancestry, this article was of special interest to me. Growing up in America, I noticed my relatives disliked anyone who was not Irish. At the same time, when someone once commented on my grandmother's delightful brogue, she slammed the phone down on the unfortunate caller.
Blood of the Irish
For years on holiday in Spain the locals think I am one of them been some what embarrassing as a couple have refused to believe me when I say no habla espanol. I have always wanted to know where me and the family came from but find the DNA is to expensive to have done and analysed. I am swarthy skinned, black hair facial features like Spanish guys. My brother is ginger haired, light skinned and Scottish in features. We wereboth born to Scottishparents inPerth Scotland. Mum was from Peterhead vast fishing trade links was swarthy skinned with black hair, dad was decended from travelling links,his family were basket makers who moved about to where raw materials were growing willow.
Still wondering about my origins as I am intrigued about the Spanish possibilities! I can't testify to Irish men, but I have a relative of Scot heritage who says Scottish men don't shake their hips when dancing because the pennies might fall out from between their butt cheeks. But uh, that could just be a wild boast :. Thanks Joseph - I am glad you enjoyed the article. You also asked about Viking connections - some vikings did settle in Ireland in the middle ages.
The family names 'MacLaughlin' and "Toner" among others are believed to be descended from Viking settlers. I remember my dad showing me a small piece on where us Durkins originated from and it quite clearly stated that we came originally from Spain and settled in Ulster. I've been trying to find the piece but to no avail so far, I remember it mentioning a King but I just can't remember what his name was. I'm not so much interested in how the study of DNA can prove my ancestry.
I think genetics has the greatest value when it can be applied to the treatment of genetically inherited sickness. If you can fix a faulty gene so a person can enjoy their health, think of all the dead ancestors that died from something that person didn't have to suffer from. That's why I support the research of DNA. Marie there is a wealth of books that touch on the subject, not directly of course, but included in the records of a British army as it fought its way through history. The problem in researching these records is getting past the romantic and mythical nonsense written about the wild geese.
My best suggestion is a quick look at the battle honours of the British regiments which will tell what countries or continents their battles were fought in. If you find an interest it that, then the regimental associations could be a source of information on the ethnic make-up of the women and children of the regiments. The 18th regt. The Connaught rangers. There was also the leinster Regt. Both the latter began life as European [Irish] Infantry regiments in the service of the British east India company, and therefore serviced most of their life in and around the Indian continent.
There were also the 5th Irish Lancers and the 8th Kings Irish Hussars, plus a few others from time to time. In addition all other regiments of the army recruited extensively in Ireland. As you can see it was quite a source of manpower, manpower that was needed to hold and control an empire. Unlike today when a regiment goes overseas for a few months only. The regiments of the 17th to the 20th century went overseas for years, in fact there are recorded cases of regiments forgotten in such place as the Caribbean islands.
Incidentally it was common practise to recruit blacks as regimental musicians and these would remain with the band until death, desertion, or demob. An interesting perspective Dubhlain - where did you come across it? Is there a book on the subject? I don't think the term 'black Irish' is as much a mystery as many think, and perhaps a very brief lesson in the history of the British army may help? Long before the union with England was forced on Ireland. The Irish were enlisting into the regiments of that army in their thousands, and in the late 17th and early 18th century that British army with its Irish regiments and its thousands of Irish in the English, Scots and Welsh regiments, fought its way from Portugal through Spain and into France.
Along the way it collected a great many Portuguese, Spanish, and French wives and woman. They weren't nuns and the soldiers were certainly not monks, priests or celebrants! The result was that in one way or another, and in spite of the terms imposed by a stingy British government, the regiments brought home a significant number of their continental wives, woman, and offspring, and for the last two hundred years or so, The descendants of those soldiers and their women can be seen the length and breadth of Ireland and quite a few other places in this world.
Sometime ago I read about the Black Irish and how the dark hair of some individuals in Ireland is due to the arrival of Spaniards. Never knew there was that much similarity. The conclusions in the article tend to suggest I was on the right track. I am swarthy skinned with black hair. Very interesting and fascinating. If the decendents sp really are Spanish in origin, why is there no similarity between the Gaelic language and Spanish. His dad was born in napa, California, USA.
I am excited to learn all I can about my dads heritage. I am a new comer to this blog. His dad was Irish, born in napa. I really don't know much. I am very interested in any information you provide on these pages I am excited to learn all I can. Very interesting Hub. I have always thought that if I traced my Irish heritage back far enough it would probably turn out that all us Irish are related. As you say its a small gene pool and a lot of us Irish do tend to marry people who live nearby although that's all changing now as the world becomes smaller and we are becoming more multicultural too.
Voted up. Very interesting hub, and I have to tell you that I only saw it because it was FB shared by Julian Lennon son of John - how good is that! My GG Daddy came emigrated out in and my daughter has those features.. Awesome and very interesting article, I've always wondered where red hair comes from and why it's so abundant in ireland. Celtic Culture is a social phenomenon not heriditary or genetic specific.
In that regard it is well to remember that while Ireland did adopt "Celtic" language and culture the Basque did not. This is the reason why the Basque and Irish both in some ways slightly genetically related, with high levels of R1b specific DNA, do not share a common ancestral heritage nor language. You have a lot of interesting questions which unfortunately I cannot answer!
I hope you will let me know if you research these topics, what you find out I think Irish culture has been influenced by people who have arrived from different parts of Europe at different times. What I do know is that the R 1b gene is more common in the west of Ireland, which is traditionally the area where people are descended from the original inhabitants of Ireland - so it must go back a long way in time See 98 more comments.
Other product and company names shown may be trademarks of their respective owners. HubPages and Hubbers authors may earn revenue on this page based on affiliate relationships and advertisements with partners including Amazon, Google, and others. HubPages Inc, a part of Maven Inc. As a user in the EEA, your approval is needed on a few things. To provide a better website experience, owlcation. Please choose which areas of our service you consent to our doing so. Marie McKeown more. Blood of the Irish The blood in Irish veins is Celtic, right?
Irish Characteristics and DNA The MC1R gene has been identified by researchers as the gene responsible for red hair as well as the accompanying fair skin and tendency towards freckles. Who Are the "Black Irish"? Read more about the origins of the people of Ireland Click on a title to read more about the history of the Irish people: First peoples of Ireland Life in Celtic Ireland. Political Science. This article helps explain the results of my DNA test. Interesting article, but a pity the Irish Isle is labelled as a British isle The name Great Britain was to distinguish it from what is now Brittanny.
Quite a few families dropped the 'O' to fit in with the anglicisation of the country. Other kingdoms you may of heard of was Wessex, Alfred the Great and Mercia with King Offa who built Offa's dyke to keep the people of wale out It was not until later when kingdoms became more unified that the name England appears. Are you refering to the Angles as the english? Well we all came originally from Africa via the Middle East.
Thanks for sharing the link to that article - very interesting! So Magnus's two bases saved European civilisation. Thanks for a fun and informative look at Irish origins. Interesting - thanks for sharing and good luck with investigating your origins! I'll agree with that Marie I couldn't dance even if my life depended on it! Fun story! I think Irish men just aren't natural dancers How interesting, great information! So I personally think that Marie has a valid point in her original article.
For starters the Irish regiments from the 17th century are; The 18th regt. Si an saol. Ancestry and genetics is one of my many loves. Truly fascinating! Sign In Join.
Delaney Rhodes. She has two teenage daughters, and is married to an entrepreneurial Husband. Together they live life at a fast pace, enjoying each other and striving to help the world become a better place.
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Besides her writing and family — Ms. Rhodes is active in many charitable organizations that benefit animals and children, both through volunteering and fundraising. His new position is met with many obstacles; including a tempestuous new wife, a two-decade long war with a neighboring village, a missing foster child and a pagan witch who overpowers the clan at every turn.
Parkin MacCahan's life just got a lot more exciting. His older brother Patrick has married the eldest daughter of the O'Malley clan. His father is building a shipping empire off the coast of Northern Ireland.